GARY GRIGSBY'S WAR IN RUSSIA +1Clk Windows 10 8 7 Vista XP Install. GARY GRIGSBY'S WAR IN RUSSIA +1Clk Windows 10 8 7 Vista XP Install.
A turn based strategy game that covers the Russo-German war of 1941-1945. The game has 3 campaign starting points: 1941 (the beginning of Operation Barbarossa), 1942 (the renewed German effort to push into the old fields of the Russian Caucus) and 1943 (the last series of major offensives launched by Germany in the east). The end date for all scenarios is July 1945. Each hex represents 20 miles while every turn represents one week. Although it was originally released in 1993, various teams of dedicated programmers have updated the game numerous times with the last update being in 2000.
So we had recent discussions here about Stalingrad and Kursk. In the last weeks I 'played' (more simulated) exactly this situation: a) The Russian winter general in the end of 1941 and beginning of 1942 did appear, but he met the Germans dug in in a defensive line around Smolensk not overextended before Moscow.
Russiand had to run some miles before meeting bigger German troops. B) Stalingrad did not happen, Axis forces stayed mostly defensive (except air force strikes on air fields) during blizzard, rain or snow. They marched however close to Moscow in the clear weather in 42, there they become bogged down a bit by Russian reeinforcements. So to avoid being enveloped in winter of 42 Germans took defensive positions around the Tula - Rechev (sp?) line in the center. C) Kursk was never seriously threatened in 43. So there was no Kursk battle.
I used the historic setup beginning in June 41 using also the historic starting forces and the German assault was roughly historic. All that changed starting in autumn of 41 however (see above). The losses of both Germans and Russians in tanks were lower than historical. Because I did not play so risky in the winter like the Germans in reality also I was not able to pocket as much troops around Kiew as in reality. A prove of this is that the Russians in 43 still have a portion of BT7 and T26 in some of their units, which would be destroyed or captured in reality.
For this simulation which is now in March of 1944 i used the old DOS program 'War In Russia' by Gary Grigsby and James Young. It provides combined with a mod I got from some guys who continued some years to develop this 'game' to make it more accurate. Get the information about this sim called WAR IN RUSSIA here: Remark: Please note that this is not meant as a post putting down the HOI series of games.
WIR is an old DOS game which is not sold or marketed anymore so no competition for HOI at all. But it is more historical acurate and hex based, also more detailed unit setups. It is just a try to how the war in the east could have gone with changed strategy.
I post maps in another post later - also some more info on production changes. You can change production of German factories for tanks and aircraft in this simulation. Not for Axis allied (Italy, Rumania etc.) however. Finish: Together with north army group managed to capture Leningrad in 42. They now are filling mainly defensive work in the north, the far north is cleared from SOV units completly. Their air did a good work and is now equipped with FW190s and JU88s.
Rumanians: Some were incorporated in German corps and in this role managed to get better exp. Otherwise they siege together with the Hungarians Sevastopol - I didn´t care to take it cause it is suplied from sea and has a big fortress bonus.
Other RUM units get some GER independent pz. Battalions or jg.
Panzers or stugs to strengthen their AT. Hungarians: See Rumanians - they also fullfill some garrison duties in the rear. Italians: I used some more Italians than historical - mainly in the far south. Therefore I did not weaken the Italian front which held longer than historic from GER units. Axis air is modernized with Ju88s and HE111. The latter ones were changed out the German bomber units which now have mainly JU88, some JU188s and HE177s. I must rely heavily on Axis fighter units because Germans alone have not enough units to cover the front - especially when the US bombing campaign starts.
We have to keep a big fighter force in the west, Germany and in Romania to protect Ploesti. Most German fighter units have FW190As, ME109Gs and now also fighterbombers FW190Fs. Italian front:The fighting in Africa & Sicily lasted longer than historic. Right now the allies have a foothold in Italy -later than historic. Western front: Bad surprise: The Allies landed already in the first clear weather turn in April in Normandy and shattered this front. CENTRAL to SOUTH front (Note the heavy concentration of RUS tank armies north of Tula and Orel, they pushed me back there.
However one of their tank armies is encircled.) Note also the DATE which is early April 44. SOUTH to FAR SOUTH front (Note the strong Stalingrad garison and the isolated army in Sevastopol which is sieged by a combined RUM/HUN corps). Played that game far too much when I was younger Wish he'd consider doing a remake along the lines of War in the Pacific - as it is, I'm making do with the John Tiller operational scale battles.
But yeah, this is an AAR which should probably be in OT. Have the mods for WiR taken in the production data of Tooze? One of my major bugbears with a lot of WW2 games has been that Germany's base industry is based on maximum production of 1944 without taking into consideration the factors which played a role in that (although admittedly the issue does skirt close to forbidden subjects, it can be present in the background with regards to such issues as manpower and production capability without necessarily giving the player certain options).
@ DarthMaur: Have you played 'WITP'? Well, WIR is probably a game only suited for a small portion of gamers Guess the research of oil, manpower and resources is not easy, tank data and numbers are easier to get. Click to expand.Hi, this is not simulated in WIR. The same goes for Terrorbombing which is also not in the game. This means the GB nightbombing campaign on Axis civil population can not be simulated with this program. Which is ok because I don´t like war against civilians. Airwar information defensive fighters in early June 44 However I have my hands full now with the Americans - even with the production optimized to only build BF109G (ca.
40%) and FW190A as fighters. The FW190D can be build in September and seems to be the only plane which can stand up to teh US P51 which now appear in masses. Except the ME262 of course, which should be available around July/August 44. This means the time untill these dates the 2 named BF and FW types need to do the job. And they have more and more trouble with this. Attrition is high and the US managed to do some succesful city bombings - they have hit artillery factories, heavy industry and - worst - the oil industry. Luckily I have Maikop in the east and Ploesti is protected by 2 large fighter units which seem to be succesful in fighting of masses of P38,P47 and B24.
ME110+410 are cancelled as well BF109F completly. I use the FW190F for fighterbombing or bomber destroyer. However they often get involved in dogfights vs. P47s and P51s and their air combat value is not good enough so losses are quite high. The same on the eastern front - Russians now have Jak9s and La5s as well some late Hurricanes, Airacobra and P47s (lend lease is simulated as you note!). The Axis still produce the most modern types of Italian Macchi 205 and Sagitario (might be Rumanian or Hungarian?). They don´t have a good endurance and durability but are quite agile so serve in some east front and 1 italian front air units.
I have already retooled some factories in preparation for the FW190D and ME262 - however I miscalulated the availability date of the FW190D (thought early 44, but in reality Sept. So have 3 factories FW190D which just are retooling and waiting untill the develpment is completed.
They produce nothing in the whole time. I got a hint in a forum that retooling factories before the real date can help in developing the equipment earlier than historical - but I have no proof for this so far.
Also 2 other factories wait for ME262 and are not producing anything. I thought I could safely do this since I had so huge reserves of fighters (FW190a, BF190f, Macchi 202). These are now almost gone like butter in the sun. Conclusion so far June 44: Even with a person who should be a bit more reasonable than Hitler & Co.
In charge of Axis this is not a cakewalk. The air war is heavy and even when I sometimes attack Russian airfields with success and destroy huge numbers (+the ones shot down in dogfights) they still have reserves.
Flak is also starting to become a factor. In the west the US bombing campaign vs.
Axis industry is in full swing and we have trouble to overcome them. We must hope for the new fighters to appear. In the beginning when the B17s and B24 came without escort or only few they seldom had any succes. This made me a bit overconfident in this regard which was not completly justified. Note: This IS NOT an AAR but an analysis, so excuse the 'dry' and statistical writing style. Click to expand.Btw. In WIR you also can (when you want - which I do of course) mircomanage your planes.
Means you can put them also on training. They don´t fly any mission then of course - even not a CAP when the airfields are attacked. So this is a bit risky near frontline units. Other problem is the attrition of frontline air units. Fighters need to be swapped out of fron from time to time. They accumulated then so much damaged planes (and/or ill or injured or war tired pilots?) that the fighting strength goes down gradualy.
![Gary Gary](http://www.matrixgames.com/files/games/372/20101123115914.jpg)
This seems to realistic. The problem is Germans haven´t enough figher units, when you swap some out to rest/repair etc. In the rear the airfields are not protected anymore. Russian strikes might destroy the bombers stationed there. Only solutions are: Also all the bombers need to be put on rest in the rear (even when they are still combat worthy) or the complete headquarter to which the air units belong need to be moved away from the front. However HQs need to near to the front because of commander and supply bonus also 2 weeks without air cover and bomber support might a bit much for the grunts fighting on the ground:wacko. June 44 - 2 screens belonging to the air war analysis: a) Strategic bombing offensive of the USAAF, here you see which numbers they can bring up and that they now have more than enough escort fighters.
This was an attack on Bremen: b) Airwar in the east, a bit different picture but still Russians have aircraft reserves. You can also see on this pic the situation in the Ukraine - Stalingrad region. We have put up defensive on the river and dug in. We did not drive for Stalingrad, our forces would be much to overextended. Ground war as of JULY 44: Only a short report at the east front we made cosiderable progress in the south and north, some smaller cities were taken and rail lines converted for our supply (we must always wait for the rail before bigger offensives - in WIR this is the main supply source you can also air transport to units that are encircled or have outrun their supply lines. However we have by far not enough transport aircraft to rely on this - also the airwar is stillraging which means huge losses from Russian fighters). The main important city we took some months ago was Maikop (OIL!).
These small cities captured are important as shelter for troops in the winter or mud turns, as refit areas, they often have rail lines crossing there and last but notleast should deplete Russian manpower a bit. The Russians made only small scale counterattacks in the north and south. However they were mostly able to push us back in the Ukraine when we crossed the main river there (Wolga or Don?) even if we succed in the river crossing they bring tank reserves to bear and push us back. The same goes for Moscow area (central front) they also tried to open up the encirclement of some of their untis in some cases freed their encircled troops. They mostly mass Guard or Shock armies for these tasks which have good combat power and modern tanks (T34/85, IS85. Along with masses of older ones: KV1e,KV1s and T34/76 M42.
Also SU85 and ISU152 apear more and more). The main counter of the Russkies was in the Orel area.
They created a huge bulge there which I feared for a time could not be hold. This would mean we needed to fall back to our old defensive line much miles west of Orel. And hundreds of miles west of Moscow. This would be serious situation considering the time (this simulation only runs untill JULY 45).
Also our north and south flanks might become unstable because of this. We had too move reserves from the OKW and the west to the Orel area which finally stopped the Russian offenseve. They didn´t bother to attack Orel directly as the Totenkopf SS Panzer Div had dugged in there along with some support unites forming a weak Pz.Korps. Quick update for November 44 (it snows now in Russia, but our troops mostly learned the past leasons are much better equipped for the cold) The Russians seem to be beaten now (not the Allies however), see the situation in the north and around Moscow in the following pic: The same for the south whith the causcasus area in our hands, also there is only one major oil+industry city left which is Baku. With the arrival of our new fighters we have good hopes to stand up to the USAAF. Especially in the west we had success and shot down a huge number of bombers.
The only thing which is still troubling are the huge numbers of US P51 escorts - even the ME262 is not a wonder weapon against them.So I expect that the air war over the Reich and Italy will still be a narrow thing. See also the index of planes + tanks (ME262+FW190 are now in full production, Hetzer tank hunter and some Kingtigers in production also): - Aircraft in inventory - NOTE: I deleted the enemy types and the totally outdated panes+tanks also. Type On map In pool total a) fighters Bf-109F2 225 1029 1254 (only 1 unit in Italy uses them still) Bf-109G 16 Fw-190A 31 Fw-190D 1139 271 1410 Fw-190F 913 262 1175 (jabo - fighterbomber) Me-262A 1277 133 1410 Sagittario 358 712 1070 (jabo - fighterbomber) Macchi 202 0 1046 1046 (in reserve like the Cant 1007 bombers) Macchi 205 372 597 969 b) ground attack Ju-87D 412 102 514 Ju-87G 110 26 136 Hs-129B 1065 309 1374 c) bomber CANT Z.1007 0 589 589 (still quite good aircraft but most italian air units surrendered - some are still flying for the Axis however. So we had recent discussions here about Stalingrad and Kursk.
In the last weeks I 'played' (more simulated) exactly this situation: a) The Russian winter general in the end of 1941 and beginning of 1942 did appear, but he met the Germans dug in in a defensive line around Smolensk not overextended before Moscow. Russiand had to run some miles before meeting bigger German troops. B) Stalingrad did not happen, Axis forces stayed mostly defensive (except air force strikes on air fields) during blizzard, rain or snow.
They marched however close to Moscow in the clear weather in 42, there they become bogged down a bit by Russian reeinforcements. So to avoid being enveloped in winter of 42 Germans took defensive positions around the Tula - Rechev (sp?) line in the center. C) Kursk was never seriously threatened in 43. So there was no Kursk battle.
I used the historic setup beginning in June 41 using also the historic starting forces and the German assault was roughly historic. All that changed starting in autumn of 41 however (see above). The losses of both Germans and Russians in tanks were lower than historical. Because I did not play so risky in the winter like the Germans in reality also I was not able to pocket as much troops around Kiew as in reality. A prove of this is that the Russians in 43 still have a portion of BT7 and T26 in some of their units, which would be destroyed or captured in reality. For this simulation which is now in March of 1944 i used the old DOS program 'War In Russia' by Gary Grigsby and James Young. It provides combined with a mod I got from some guys who continued some years to develop this 'game' to make it more accurate.
Get the information about this sim called WAR IN RUSSIA here: Remark: Please note that this is not meant as a post putting down the HOI series of games. WIR is an old DOS game which is not sold or marketed anymore so no competition for HOI at all. But it is more historical acurate and hex based, also more detailed unit setups. It is just a try to how the war in the east could have gone with changed strategy. I post maps in another post later - also some more info on production changes. You can change production of German factories for tanks and aircraft in this simulation.
Not for Axis allied (Italy, Rumania etc.) however. Click to expand.OK.I think you got one IMPORTANT point wrong.you see, Barbarossa was not just about winning.it was about winning fast, ie 4 months.Hitler ordered his generals to prepare for a four-month war.an all-out attack that would capture Leningrad, the grain fields of Ukraine and the oil fields.Hitler wanted a short war, a war that would force Britain to sue for peace and leave Germany alone.so there was no question of changing strategy.Hitler would have sent that poor general to a concentration camp. EDIT: And if Hitler had gone on the defensive, WWII would have ended in 1942.
OK.I think you got one IMPORTANT point wrong.you see, Barbarossa was not just about winning.it was about winning fast, ie 4 months.Hitler ordered his generals to prepare for a four-month war.an all-out attack that would capture Leningrad, the grain fields of Ukraine and the oil fields.Hitler wanted a short war, a war that would force Britain to sue for peace and leave Germany alone.so there was no question of changing strategy.Hitler would have sent that poor general to a concentration camp. EDIT: And if Hitler had gone on the defensive, WWII would have ended in 1942. Click to expand.Yes, but this one is imho the most precise sim of Russia. However I am willing to learn if someone can name other 'games' of this topic which are better? Yeah, I read in the Matrix forum about the new WIR, however it has no production which is an important feature for this simulation. AI - Guess I am not a good player,e but I think the AI is not that bad in WIR.
It covers the front better than in HOI for example that´s for sure. Also troops don´t wander around senseless but dig in on the defense (reasonabloe or not?). The offense is okay also cause they try to open open up pockets of troops encircled and mass considerable strenght for this (as long as their strength lasts -mind in the end of 44 the Russians are now quite stripped of manpower and modern tanks, the Axis is also very short on manpower btw. Some divs are only 30-40% of their original squad numbers). The main error of the AI on the ground is that their tank armies run to deep in my territory when I have still good dug in corpse near the breakthrough area.
As well I can move Pz.corpse (of course weaken the front on another point) per rail to the endangered point. So I can cut them of and a) starve them a bit or b) attack directly mostly forcing their surrender. BUT, all these mistakes the AI makes were made in reality by WW2 comanders weren´t they? The main weak point of AI is that they make senseless air attacks which only a few planes and without escorts often. BUT these attacks were also reality still in 42 or 43 when large numbers of Rus IL2 and the like were shot down cause they flew without any escort. Will take some time untill next update, however I would be interested in the other eastfront games as good and detailed as WIR.
And with better AI, so one poster above suggests Granted the AI has always weaknesses, in 44 or 45 the Russians wouldn´t make some of the mistakes the AI makes in game as they learned much in reality. I mean here especially that it is still queite easy to encircle 1 or 2 armies from them (note a ARMY is the soviet equivalent for CORPS in the west) so these are not disasters like Kiew pocket, es mostly a normal army consists of 2 - 5 inf divs and/or 1-2 mech or tank corps. Tank or shock armies are more tank heavy means 3-6 tank or mech corps (the mech corps is more like a German or US panzerdiv in strength).